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Poster: Liamfinnegan Date: Jul 24, 2007 5:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

The Fact Keith repeats the same few lines for 5-10 minutes in the transition jam automatically disqualifies this version from consideration of top versions- It is hard to decide sometimes what criteria to use on the combos- Some scarlet-fire combos have pedestrian fires- those often mentioned in top versions I mean- while others have mundane scarlet's- there are many more of the former than this latter- I am hard pressed to find more than 5 or 10 where the scarlet- the transition jam-AND the Fire smoke to the point where the apex of the version rests in fire and not in the trans jam:

7-7-89 still is my choice for the one version that does it all from start to finish- it does not have the best of any of the three main parts- but taken as a whole it shines above all the rest for me- it is helped by a monumental fire for sure

http://www.archive.org/details/gd89-07-07.sbd.wiley.7855.sbeok.shnf

hear it again for the first time

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Poster: swamiGD80s Date: Jul 25, 2007 6:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

THANK YOU LIAM!! You are so correct - that Keith riff is very annoying from the Cornell.

1984 actually had some very intense Scarlet-Fire's, and Scarlet-Touch/Fire's.. Check out 4-13-84, 5-6-84, 10-30-84, and of course 12-31-84.

Other notable Scarlet-Fire's in my mind are 8-5-79 (the beginning of the Scarlet-Fire-Estimated-Eyes tradition), 3-27-88 (well-known Hampton show), and 11-26-82 (Montego Bay).

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Poster: swamiGD80s Date: Jul 25, 2007 7:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

whoops.. 5/8/84 was the Scarlet-Touch not 5/6

Another really good Scarle-Fire I forgot: 4/13/83

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Poster: kochman Date: Jul 25, 2007 2:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

blasphemy

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jul 24, 2007 6:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

I know what you mean about Keith's repetitive riff, but to me he grabs it and hagns on to it to add structure rhythmically, not to play melody...it was his style sometimes to do that...Garcia is just too fucking good in this version to let some monotony ruin it for you...the transition jam into the intro is as good as it gets...the ending jam is as good as it gets...

versions that are have that consistency of excellence throughout the combo are rare indeed...however the best ones that qualify would be 10-10-1980, 10-19-1981, 03-31-1988, 03-22-1990...10-01-1994 might be the last one...a bunch more are pretty damn good too, the aforementioned 07-07-1989...I believe that 06-18-1983 and 05-23-1982 sustain the jams throughout the pairing...10-17-1978 is a real nice overlooked version that settles nicely into jams...

there's a bunch of really flawed and/ or boring versions that get alot of pub, 11-01-1979, 11-30-1980, 10-14-1994 are the 3 biggest offenders...

For me the Fire inro jam is a make or break point...

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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Jul 24, 2007 7:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

It's a dead horse that merits further beating.

While the Cornell Scarlet > Fire is exceptionally polished, it's also altogether unsurprising. Jerry seems to have no particular ideas in the Scarlet jam, and his Fire solos could either be described as archetypal or standard fare, depending on if you're a fan of the version or not. Listening for new and unexpected musical turns of phrase, I get nothing out of this version.

Just sticking with Spring 77 versions, 4-23-77, 5-21-77, and 5-25-77 clean Cornell's clock.

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Jul 24, 2007 6:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

7-7-89 Fire is insane.



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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jul 24, 2007 6:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

it's on youtube...

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Poster: yesss! Date: Jul 25, 2007 10:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

gotta link for that? i've seen the blow away and loser snippets, but not the epic s>f...

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Jul 24, 2007 6:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

Liam, on a different note .... track down the 10-29-73 2nd set, and crank the Wharf Rat. An unbelievable 1st set Eyes as well.

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Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Jul 24, 2007 6:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

but Keith is really good in the Scarlet, and plays well in both Fire jams. I like Keith in the 2nd set of that show. Thanks for the '89 tip, on it now ......

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Poster: Jeff Gannon Date: Jul 25, 2007 7:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

you're crazy, I love that repeated Keith line! :)
and it's 2-3 minutes, not "5-10"

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Jul 25, 2007 7:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

I'd just like to make a case for this Scarlet>Fire played less than a week after the much-talked-about Cornell show:

5/13/77

http://www.archive.org/details/gd77-05-13.sbd.miller.9393.sbeok.shnf

This is a similar type of '77 S>F, but gentler and more beautiful than its Cornell counterpart. There's less repetition from Keith, a VERY subdued vocal from Donna that is SO much easier on the ears, and while the transition into Fire is quite brief, not a note is wasted.

The transition is also unique for this time period in that it doesn't "melt" into Fire so much as it starts on the beat with Phil very much leading the way. The Fire that follows is controlled, sustained, and gorgeous.

In all, I think this is one of the most underrated Scarlet>Fires of ANY era, certainly for '77, and is better than the Cornell combo.

Check it out.

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Poster: Max Chorak Date: Jul 25, 2007 8:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

I dunno, keith does a huuuge repetitious one noter in the estimated prophet from 10-02-77.. It's amazing though.. I know it's not a transition.. but it's cool :D if you haven't listened to that.. go hear it out.. just "dah dah dah dah dah dah" ad infinitum


edit: not 10-02.. i can't figure this out.. does anybody know?! it's a 77 show I'm pretty sure..

This post was modified by Max Chorak on 2007-07-25 15:53:53

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Poster: yesss! Date: Jul 25, 2007 10:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

yes. i love the s>f from jfk 89. i'm partial as it was one of the best nights of my life but it is an epic version and the whole show smokes.

another s>f that i really like but which goes under the radar is from st.paul on 8/6/82. really nice reggae-ish transition jam with very melodic jerry and great comping from brent and booby. check it out.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Jul 24, 2007 8:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Beating a Dead horse- this is fun- what does the horse care since he's/she's dead? 5/8/77 Scarlet-Fire - way over-cited

As Chauncey Gardner once said: "I like to watch."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKmaKIdEk08

Scarlet/Fire 4/27/77